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Those who knew him
thought it was a remarkable story.
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He went from being
the one who performed amputations
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to the one having the operation.
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In fact, the story turned out
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to be so dark, mind-boggling and bizarre,
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I would not have believed you
if you had said that this is a novel.
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We all have our own vision in our heads
of what a criminal is.
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Neil Hopper didn't fit that bill.
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An NHS vascular surgeon
who'd performed hundreds of amputations…
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He was quite a sort of local celebrity.
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We're very lucky today
to have, uh, Mr Neil Hopper.
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And he's gonna be talking…
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But the Neil Hopper
that we saw in the public eye
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was hiding a dark secret.
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He was an active member
in an underworld community.
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And he realised there was a whole world
out there of people like him.
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People performing
these horrific procedures.
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It's like a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde thing.
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It put this thought in his mind,
and then it just grew
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until it just became irresistible.
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This web of deceit started to be exposed.
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I believed what he said
because he was a doctor.
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It was very shocking.
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It's a story of greed, deception
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and the very dark side of humanity.
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Truro is a small city.
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It's only about 20,000 people.
So it's a nice, little place.
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There's all the history,
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and there's a river
and lovely walks you can do.
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And it is quite close-knit.
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There is a strong sense
of Cornishness and pride.
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Truro is also my home.
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My name is Olivier Vergnault.
I'm a senior reporter with Cornwall Live.
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And I'm French. I was born in Paris.
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I came to England in 2007.
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I've been a journalist for 26 years.
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I'm a general news reporter,
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so I cover everything from What's On
to court to business to car crashes.
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Or maybe, um, interview somebody
who has lost their home in a flood.
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You know, everything.
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In the summer, it's more fun
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because some people
park their cars on the beach,
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and that's really funny.
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Especially when the tide comes in.
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Cornwall is
a beautiful holiday destination.
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But looks can be deceiving.
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Like anywhere, there are dark secrets
that lie just below the surface.
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And sometimes as journalists,
we report on that darker side of life.
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Some of these cases stay in my mind
and in my head more than others,
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and the Hopper case is one of those.
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I'd first heard of him
through a documentary
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that followed him around at work.
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Hi, how are you guys?
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So who have we got first?
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So Neil Hopper,
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he was a well-regarded vascular surgeon
and consultant
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at the Royal Cornwall Hospital
that's known as Treliske.
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Hello. How are you?
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Um, how are your legs doing?
How are they feeling?
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He was one of these people
that really helped others
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and put himself 100% for his patients.
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Ouch. That's pretty nasty, isn't it?
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Up here, you know,
in people's esteem as a professional.
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Hi. How are you doing?
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I remember Neil had a very
sensitive and patient-centred approach.
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How much sleep did you get last night?
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I thought
that was fairly touching actually,
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that he would be, you know,
quite so caring about his patients.
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I'm Harvey Chant.
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I was a consultant vascular surgeon
in Royal Cornwall Hospital.
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I first met Neil Hopper
when he came down to Cornwall in 2013.
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I probably worked with him for ten years.
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He was the sort of guy
that just wanted to get on with the job
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and didn't want to set the world alight,
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and I kind of rather took to him
because of that.
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My first day working with Neil, walking
down one of the corridors of Treliske,
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and again,
just being friendly and saying,
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"Let's go have a cup of coffee."
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And we're chatting away about things,
and he said, "Well, to be fair,
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you've got to be slightly mad
to do this job."
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And I completely agreed.
Really, you know, it's absolutely…
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You do have to be slightly mad
to do the job
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if you think about what is expected
of a vascular surgeon.
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Probably 95% of amputations
are done by vascular surgeons.
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And you could see
Neil was particularly competent.
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Okay, pointy stick.
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- Crikey, look at that.
- Hmm.
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And one of the things
I noted about Neil particularly
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was that he was very keen on anatomy,
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and I was always struck
by his level of knowledge in anatomy.
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- Well, check in her vein.
- Okay.
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And Neil was very good at knowing
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exactly where a blood vessel
would be during an operation,
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where the nerves would be in an operation,
and how to get to them.
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So, I rapidly developed
a lot of confidence in his practice
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from the surgical point of view.
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- That's done it, isn't it?
- Mm-hmm.
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Yeah. Yeah, just a little
tiny bit of tidying up, but…
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Yeah, thanks, hon.
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He was well-liked by the theatre team.
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I would say that we…
we got on pretty well as colleagues.
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He just came over
as a very dedicated family man
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with an interest in camper vanning
and, uh, watching films when he could.
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Life was going pretty well for Neil.
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But on a camping trip over Easter in 2019,
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a turn of events would lead to
Neil Hopper's life being changed forever.
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So, I went on
a camping holiday with my family.
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We went to the River Dart.
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Um, the first night we were there,
um, my daughter and I became unwell,
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feeling a bit sick, um,
and decided to abandon the camping trip.
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And over the next couple of days,
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we sort of lingered around
and felt a bit fluey and achy.
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Um, and then, um, one night,
I went to bed a bit early,
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having had a hot toddy
and a couple of paracetamol.
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He was on his own at home,
not feeling too well.
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A friend came to check in on him,
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and that's when they found him
very, very unwell and ill,
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and he had to be rushed to hospital.
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And that's when
his own colleagues here in Truro,
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from his very own team,
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worked their hardest to-to help him.
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I have some flashbacks
of being in the emergency department.
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I got better pretty quickly
with fluids and antibiotics,
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but my… my feet were
quite painful and quite blue.
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I first knew
about Neil and his leg problems
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when I was on a sabbatical in Preston.
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I knew that he had been ill
and he had developed sepsis,
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and his feet had lost their blood supply.
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It was a very strange situation
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that his colleagues
in Royal Cornwall Hospital
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had to go and see him in intensive care
and look at his feet
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and work out what they could do
about the damage.
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Seeing your own, uh, colleague
that you know well
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with two black feet,
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almost certainly
a very troubling experience.
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Sepsis is basically the body's response
to a severe infection.
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If sepsis does develop,
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one of the responses the body has
is to start losing blood pressure.
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And when you lose blood pressure,
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your blood supply to the tissues
around the body starts dropping.
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Your fingers and toes, uh,
can have so little blood supply
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that they start to die off
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and cause your fingers or toes
to start looking black
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and look a little bit like
they've been damaged by frostbite.
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I was transferred across
to Derriford Hospital
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for some hyperbaric oxygen therapy,
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where they put you in the… um, the tube,
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the chamber that they use
to treat the bends in divers
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to try and boost the amount of oxygen
getting down to my feet.
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So I had that for a couple of weeks,
which was pretty horrendous.
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That was three hours a day
sat in a metal tube.
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They tried for days to-to save his legs,
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and a lot of, um, skills
and personnel and equipment.
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I think there was no stone unturned
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in terms of, uh, making sure
every bit of treatment was offered to him.
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But eventually the decision was taken
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to undergo amputation,
and he dealt with that very well.
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I was relieved
when it finally happened
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because I was finally gonna get better.
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I was finally out of the woods.
I was not feeling ill anymore.
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In my career, I think I've only
ever done one bilateral amputation,
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removing both legs at the same time.
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So for that to be happening
to a vascular surgeon
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is, of course, um,
beyond the realms of usual.
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You can imagine
how upset people felt for Neil
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and the family and everybody else around.
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It was a very difficult process
to go through
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and difficult to put someone through.
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I went home
and just felt like I'd fallen off a cliff
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because I'd gone from being fussed around
and people looking after me all the time,
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you know, always somebody to chat to.
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There was always a nurse
coming in and out,
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one of the health care assistants,
to being at home on my own with no legs.
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It was… It was pretty awful.
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But I also remember him saying that,
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you know, "I'm not gonna go
into the hospital in a wheelchair.
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When I go back to work,
it will be walking."
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And, you know, true to his word,
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he really was very keen
and determined to do so.
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He started recording
his own personal journey,
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and he posted it online.
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I've just been discharged from hospital,
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um, and I was admitted unwell
with sepsis of unknown cause.
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Um, thankfully, six weeks later, I'm okay,
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um, but there were some complications
of my, um, hospital treatment
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and I lost both my legs below the knees,
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which is quite ironic, given my job.
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Here I've got shrinkers on.
You know, it's incredibly weird.
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I'm currently, um, just killing time,
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waiting to be fitted with prosthetics
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so that I can get back to living
as normal a life as possible.
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I met Neil
after he had lost both his legs.
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He wanted to get back to work,
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so he wanted to get rehabbed
as fast as possible.
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He seemed a little bit reserved,
a little bit quiet,
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but the more he'd done,
the more his confidence grew.
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We started off with weights.
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So lifting heavier and heavier weights.
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We got on a spinning bike.
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To start off with,
when he was in the wheelchair,
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he didn't want anybody to see him,
so we used to sneak him into the gym,
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get him on the equipment
and do the exercise.
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Compared to other patients, he didn't…
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He did not grieve his legs.
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It was very, very unusual
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because a lot of amputees
are very sad after it's happened
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because it's a big shock.
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But he never… he never was.
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He was always happy-go-lucky.
He took everything as an adventure.
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He wanted to try new things.
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I always said to him,
"You need to slow down
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because you need to grieve about that."
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And, "No, no, it's fine. It's fine."
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Um, he was very, very different
from everybody else that I dealt with.
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Everybody that met him through the gym,
they all followed him because he was…
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If you like, he was the superstar of the…
of the gym at the time.
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I'm feeling quite strong.
I am getting fitter every day.
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Uh, down the gym quite a lot
and doing a lot of aerobic exercise.
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So, I'm in about as good a position
to start with legs as I think I can be.
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I think if you, um, aim for the stars
and hit the moon, that's fine,
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and that's what my feeling about it is.
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What really, really was amazing was
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he went from a wheelchair
to prosthetics with no stick.
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Oh, that's… that's fine, actually.
Let's do the other one, then.
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He walked straight away.
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I think he was an hour or two
with the physios, and he was walking.
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Nobody does that.
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See, that's when he's just…
See how well he walks?
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So he's on new test sockets,
and he is just walking.
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He's not even using the bars.
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He's not using anything to help him walk.
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He's just walking.
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Oh, that's him on his blades.
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Once he got his blades sorted,
he never held on once.
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He just ran. So it was quite amazing.
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With the blades, you have to run
because they bounce.
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So you'd fall over.
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For a lot of amputees,
that's a really, really hard thing to do,
239
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:07,920
but Neil was fine.
240
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,679
He lost a lot of weight as well,
241
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,040
doing the gym work and doing the running.
242
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,320
That's actually me filming him.
243
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,279
He always used to say to me
he was a doctor that, um,
244
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,639
never used to do anything.
245
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,519
Drank a lot, didn't exercise,
used to smoke years before.
246
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:37,040
Um, and then when he had
his prosthetics, it sort of changed.
247
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,000
You could see,
248
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:46,319
he seemed to have
a new excitement to life.
249
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:55,239
We've just run and walked almost 4k.
250
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,159
Um, which is the first time
I've properly run on my new legs.
251
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,919
It's brilliant to be able to run,
something I've never really done before.
252
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,559
Yeah, chuffed. I can run. Yay!
253
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,240
He was, um, getting on a bike.
254
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,999
He was doing exercise.
He was getting into the water.
255
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,480
He went kayaking.
256
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,200
So, yeah, I'm doing stuff now
that I never really did before.
257
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,999
I started working with him
in May, June time,
258
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,840
and he was back at work in October.
259
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,640
So Neil got back to work
really, really quick.
260
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,359
And because he was a vascular surgeon
with amputations, he was on TV.
261
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:50,200
So, we're gonna do
a left carotid endarterectomy.
262
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,239
Um, technically,
should be reasonably straightforward.
263
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,720
Neil was lauded as a hero
when he got back to work.
264
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,199
So, he got back quickly.
265
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,999
He was the go-to person
for amputation experience.
266
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,479
At any one time on our ward,
267
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,599
there would be one or two people
with an amputation,
268
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,199
or looking at having an amputation,
269
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,039
and we would feel,
Neil's the chap to talk to.
270
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,720
And he was using his status to talk about
his experiences with patients.
271
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,119
One of the questions
I get from them in general
272
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,239
is what it feels like.
273
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:32,319
What are the kind of sensations
that happen after having an amputation?
274
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,520
And it's nice just to talk to them and
tell them that at the moment it feels odd.
275
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,639
Suddenly, people were like,
"Oh, wow," you know?
276
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,199
"Well done you for coming back."
277
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,599
And, you know,
"We wouldn't have expected you to.
278
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,359
But you did, and that's amazing."
279
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:51,240
So there was that sense of, "I'm a hero.
280
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,400
And I'm helping others by
putting it out there on social media."
281
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,359
I'm a double amputee, and I'm coping.
282
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:05,879
And, you know, I just hope
that if there's somebody out there
283
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,799
I can help along get through this
284
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,240
to-to make people realise
that it's not great,
285
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,600
but it's not that bad either.
286
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,559
He was championing
being able to come back to work,
287
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,879
being able to fight and carry on, and…
288
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,679
So it was kind of like helping others
289
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,199
who may have had
similar things happen to them.
290
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:34,159
Despite everything that happened to him,
it was absolutely inspirational.
291
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280
And suddenly,
it's kind of a feel-good story.
292
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:47,679
And the label of "hero"
was also put on him by the media.
293
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,239
Now, a surgeon who's amputated
thousands of limbs during his career
294
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,120
has returned to work
after having both of his own legs removed.
295
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,559
It made national news.
296
00:20:58,560 --> 00:20:59,999
He was on the BBC.
297
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,239
Well, Neil joins us now.
I'm so delighted to say, "Morning."
298
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,559
- Good morning.
- He was on ITV.
299
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,599
Because it was, um… It was a good story.
300
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,839
And also, he was charismatic.
301
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,359
It was meant to take
about four to six months to get walking,
302
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,599
and I did it in three hours.
303
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,519
- Did you?
- Yeah.
304
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,799
I think he thought
he was doing the right thing
305
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,719
by talking about his experience
really openly.
306
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,840
I ended up having an operation
where they took all my toes off,
307
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,279
um, and then when they did that
308
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,799
they realised that everything
was a lot worse than they expected.
309
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,239
He accepted, like, the glare of the media.
He wanted it in that sense.
310
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,559
So I've developed a squeak in my leg
311
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,359
that happens after I've been wearing it
for too long.
312
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:53,599
So I'm going to the office now to put on
another sock to get rid of the squeak.
313
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,119
He was an advocate
for people with amputations.
314
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,160
We're very lucky today
to have, uh, Mr Neil Hopper.
315
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,239
And he's gonna be talking to us…
316
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,239
He got more and more confident
317
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,759
with being able to talk
to people about it,
318
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,319
being able to help people with it.
319
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,519
So, I started thinking about
amputations in a different way.
320
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,679
It's not the end of things,
it's the beginning of things.
321
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,719
It's an opportunity to… to start afresh.
322
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,319
Thank you.
323
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,680
He inspired a lot of people
through what he did.
324
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,479
He always came across as,
he wanted to help others
325
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,560
in the same situation
that were worse off than him.
326
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,800
I think it did make him feel better
to help other people.
327
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,320
I think it gave him confidence.
328
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,639
Is there anything about the experience
329
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,719
where you actually feel
it's benefited your life
330
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,399
as opposed to damaging it?
331
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,360
Um, yeah, I-- Well…
332
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,800
It reinforced my place in the universe
in a… in a weird way.
333
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,559
The Neil Hopper before the operation
and the Neil Hopper now,
334
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,600
you know, we're the same person
but quite… quite different.
335
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,959
After the amputations,
336
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,800
he thought,
"I wonder if there's a bit of money,
337
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,360
almost like a compensation thing,
from the insurance I could get."
338
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,679
Things are going okay.
339
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,919
I've even managed…
…to sort out some insurance claims
340
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,999
and personal independent payment claims.
341
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,480
I can afford to live
without the payments,
342
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,079
um, but then there's the other half of me
going, "It's there. It's…
343
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,040
I'm entitled to it. I've paid my taxes."
344
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,719
Um, so, yeah,
345
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,120
I don't think I'm morally strong enough
not to take the free stuff.
346
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,919
So, he looked into it,
thinking he might get ten grand, 20, 15.
347
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,399
Not much.
348
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,400
But suddenly the money was life-changing.
349
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,959
I saw on his social media
that he got the new car,
350
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,720
he got the adaptions, he got the bike.
351
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,240
He got his private legs.
352
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,559
NHS legs are very, very different
to private legs.
353
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,159
He was a doctor, so I thought
he was earning a lot of money.
354
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,920
So I thought he could afford
to get all these adaptions.
355
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,359
So Neil Hopper
356
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:38,280
had two life insurance policies.
357
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,800
And having lost his legs through sepsis,
he was entitled to being paid out.
358
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,639
He claimed nearly half a million pounds
359
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,160
from the two insurance policies
that he had.
360
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:54,719
And when you look
at his Instagram account,
361
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,000
you can see
what he was spending his money on.
362
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,200
Some of the money was used
for making adaptations to his home,
363
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,520
repaying his debts,
364
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,680
camper van,
goodies like a hot tub and Jacuzzi.
365
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,480
Nearly half a million pounds
is a lot of money.
366
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,920
He was enjoying his life.
367
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:23,279
After everything that happened,
he seemed happy having lost his legs,
368
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,799
which is bizarre because most people
would be devastated losing a limb.
369
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,519
Weirdly, I'm doing better than I thought.
370
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:37,079
Um, actually, I'm worried about the fact
that I'm not worried.
371
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,039
I don't know if there's some cloud
gonna hit me at some point
372
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,720
or whether this is as bad as it gets.
373
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,960
That's when I think
it started to go wrong for him.
374
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,680
The Neil Hopper
that we saw in the public eye
375
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,240
was hiding a dark secret.
376
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,599
So I was working
for the Press Association
377
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,960
as a court reporter.
378
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,079
I had a sort of tip-off
379
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,880
that something was going on
at Westminster Magistrates Court.
380
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,560
So I went down there without really
knowing much about what to expect.
381
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,839
We were warned that, you know,
382
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,920
there was gonna be
some particularly gruesome details.
383
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:41,199
As soon as I walked into court,
I saw this big guy in the dock
384
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,440
and was handed a long charge sheet
with the name Marius Gustavson on.
385
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,959
Marius Gustavson's originally from Norway,
386
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,160
where he used to work as a postman
before coming to the UK.
387
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,759
And then he set up this website
called the Eunuch Maker,
388
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,519
where he'd advertise what were described
as extreme body modification videos,
389
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,359
which included cutting the genitals,
390
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,160
the penis and testicles off men,
to literally make them eunuchs.
391
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,919
When the case got to the Old Bailey,
392
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,600
there were nine codefendants
he was sentenced alongside.
393
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,999
But Gustavson was the ringleader
of this group of men
394
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,280
apparently willingly having
bits of their body removed.
395
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:41,399
And these procedures were going on
in Marius Gustavson's basement flat
396
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,120
in a residential part of London.
397
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,239
It wasn't in a medical setting,
and, you know, they'd often go wrong.
398
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,439
It would result in them
needing to call an ambulance
399
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,560
and people rushed to hospital
and patched up with the NHS.
400
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,999
The nature of the evidence,
it was so extreme.
401
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
You know, a lot of it was, uh,
difficult to listen to.
402
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,319
And especially when they showed
the video of Marius Gustavson
403
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,479
having his penis removed by one of
his codefendants, who was an escort.
404
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,239
Quite strangely, after he'd cut it off,
405
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,159
he actually said
on this video that, you know,
406
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,599
"That's one for the bucket list,"
which, you know, is very strange.
407
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:24,199
Puts it on a par with, you know,
408
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,320
swimming with dolphins
or something like that.
409
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,559
It was apparently
quite a lucrative enterprise,
410
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:38,079
and Gustavson made around
£300,000 in profits off this site
411
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,520
over about four years.
412
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,919
It was accepted that
every one of these people
413
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,239
who had procedures done to them
was consenting,
414
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,840
but it was a degree
to how informed that consent was.
415
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,159
One 16-year-old boy was involved,
416
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,479
and some of the other people
were also vulnerable in different ways.
417
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,760
Drug users and, you know,
mental health problems.
418
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,199
The judge was quite forthright
419
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,160
in his sentencing remarks
about this operation.
420
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,519
He called it
"little short of human butchery"
421
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,439
and was adamant there was
no defence in law to these crimes.
422
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,680
So, the evidence in the case
against Marius Gustavson was overwhelming.
423
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,399
And he was sentenced to life imprisonment
424
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,119
with a minimum term of 22 years
for what he'd done.
425
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,880
His codefendants
got fairly lengthy prison terms.
426
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,039
So in court, we heard that
a victim came forward, Michael,
427
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,439
and alerted police to what was going on.
428
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,599
The judge even praised
the bravery of the victim,
429
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,320
saying, you know, this would still
be going on if it wasn't for him.
430
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,519
After the court hearing,
431
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,999
I received an email
from somebody I didn't know
432
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,639
who referred to himself as Michael.
433
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,239
That's not his real name.
434
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:12,959
And Michael said,
435
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,360
"Do you want to find out
how I brought down the Eunuch Maker?"
436
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,959
He said he was a victim
437
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,480
and he had been castrated by Gustavson
on the website.
438
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,720
And he wanted his story to be told.
439
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,559
And I was intrigued, I've got to admit.
440
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,000
And Michael lived in West Cornwall,
441
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,240
so I went to see him.
442
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,280
And it was the most unbelievable story.
443
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,159
And also by coming forward,
444
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,120
he helped shine a light
on Neil Hopper's involvement.
445
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,440
I met Gustavson through a mutual friend.
446
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,560
He said his name was Theo.
447
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,839
I now know that Theo is Greek for "god",
448
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,240
and, um, made sense,
as he was playing God.
449
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,960
He was charming, friendly,
450
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
seemed like a genuine enough guy.
451
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,840
Seemed relatable.
452
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,840
Didn't seem like a monster.
453
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,720
We had extensive chats on WhatsApp.
454
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,679
I was… …grieving
a couple of very close friends,
455
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,360
and we had pretty deep conversations
for casual hookups.
456
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,560
I certainly felt I could trust him.
457
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,720
Gustavson was into
some pretty extreme BDSM,
458
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,960
but he seemed relatively safe.
459
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,359
Gustavson showed me
his website that he ran
460
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,800
and told me I should join it.
461
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,799
The website was the Eunuch Maker.
462
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,400
It was very extreme, to say the least.
463
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,360
Michael told me
about the Eunuch Maker,
464
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,440
and I thought, "Oh, my God. Wow."
465
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,480
I didn't know this world existed.
466
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:40,360
People having amputations done to them,
castrating themselves, streamed live.
467
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,720
This is incredible. This is madness.
468
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,039
The website
looked professional enough.
469
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,519
It was just a dot-com website address.
470
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,320
You didn't have to…
It wasn't on the dark web at all.
471
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,159
And I just thought, "Well, if…
if he's running that sort of website,
472
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,719
then obviously it hasn't caused
any alarm bells to ring
473
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,200
with any authorities, so fine."
474
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,080
On that website,
there was a very active community,
475
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:25,160
and they were very encouraging
to new people.
476
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:28,720
They were very supportive.
477
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,240
And there are more than
20,000 members on that website,
478
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,599
which is probably
as many people live in Truro.
479
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,440
So it's like the whole of Truro
on a weird website.
480
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,519
These paying members,
they bought videos, they downloaded them.
481
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,200
The more extreme the amputation,
482
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,880
the higher up the ranks you went up
in the little league table.
483
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,519
I was shocked, but equally fascinated.
484
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,240
The world that Gustavson created
485
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,679
was in many ways like a cult.
486
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Um, he was the main ringleader,
487
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,400
and then you had a lot of
very devoted followers.
488
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,840
They were his members.
489
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,920
They were his foot soldiers.
490
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,480
The community on that website
was predominantly gay men.
491
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
They weren't degenerates.
492
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,400
They were upstanding members of society,
493
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,920
um, holding down regular jobs
494
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,200
with high responsibility.
495
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:53,680
There were rumours on the website
that there was actual surgeons on there.
496
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,879
I had it very clearly on my profile
497
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,239
that I didn't want
any permanent damage done,
498
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:09,319
but at that time,
I was in a very dark place mentally,
499
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,080
and I wanted to feel pain at that time.
500
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,719
And then Gustavson
started putting the idea in my head
501
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,040
that, "Oh, maybe
I should just castrate you."
502
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,320
My initial reaction was, "Fuck no."
503
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:34,680
Then he told me that there was a
considerable amount of money in it for me.
504
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,680
Gustavson sent a tariff over,
505
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:44,000
and a castration was coming in at £15,000.
506
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:51,680
To my… my life at that point,
it was a life-changing amount of money.
507
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,440
And I stupidly believed him.
508
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,960
I never saw a single penny.
509
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,999
And I talked to people on the website,
510
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,360
and they'd go, "Yeah, you should do it.
That'd be a good idea."
511
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,399
The seeds had been planted,
and they had been nurtured
512
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,280
over the course of a couple of months
513
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,839
not just by Gustavson, but by
every single member of that website.
514
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,640
So I agreed to the unthinkable.
515
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,679
He was agreeing
516
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,720
to have a castration procedure done to him
517
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,959
live on the Internet
518
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,600
with people paying through
that Eunuch Maker website to watch it.
519
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,239
When he was recounting
what was happening to him,
520
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:47,080
at the time,
I certainly squirmed in my chair.
521
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,999
I wish I could
go back through time
522
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,360
and shake myself vigorously by the neck.
523
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,640
It was insanity. It was complete insanity.
524
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,000
The whole thing had been filmed.
525
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,640
It was content for his website.
526
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:12,800
It's all it was.
527
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,680
It was just another update
for his website.
528
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,000
I was utterly broken.
529
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:23,200
I thought my life was in ruins.
530
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,120
Michael was a victim.
531
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,280
He agreed to it, but it wasn't, like,
100% his own will in that sense.
532
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,719
He said that he was
in a bad place mentally
533
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:37,320
because his friends had died.
534
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,799
And Michael mentioned it to me himself.
535
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,319
He said was groomed. This is grooming.
536
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,399
This is nurturing you
537
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:51,360
into doing something illegal,
dangerous… uh, sick.
538
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,560
He was groomed by…
by Gustavson, absolutely.
539
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,199
You cannot consent to being tortured
or… or castrated or mutilated.
540
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,760
There's no consent in law for that.
541
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,279
My pride doesn't want me to admit
that I was being taken advantage of,
542
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,039
but… yes.
543
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,039
Yes.
544
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:21,400
Looking back,
there was a lot of manipulation going on.
545
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,360
I finally saw Gustavson for what he was.
546
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,080
I saw him as a monster.
547
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,360
He was just a butcher.
548
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,519
It's disgusting
what happened to Michael.
549
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,079
But he had the strength,
550
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,880
despite what happened to him,
551
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,479
to go to the police.
552
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,360
No other victim came forward.
553
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,320
But Michael did.
554
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,840
I knew in my heart of hearts
that this had to stop,
555
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,800
because people would soon be dying
with what was going on on that website.
556
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,160
I decided that I would talk to the police.
557
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,560
They couldn't do anything
unless I made a formal complaint.
558
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,680
So I rang up the Met and said,
"Go for it. I'll give you everything."
559
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,479
And that phone call from Michael
560
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:33,800
led to the Met's serious crime squad
raiding Gustavson's basement flat.
561
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,839
There was so much stuff
in there, so much evidence,
562
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,280
that the police ended up
searching the flat for days.
563
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,839
When the police raided Gustavson's flat,
564
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,640
they obviously seized all his devices…
565
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,599
and his hard drives
with a huge amount of data on it.
566
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,959
There was a large amount
of video evidence,
567
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,519
a large amount of photographic evidence,
568
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,359
along with what I understand is
thousands of pages of messages
569
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,960
that were sent between him,
the victims and his co-conspirators.
570
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,799
The Met
then investigated Marius Gustavson
571
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,920
and several other suspects.
572
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,879
They realised fairly soon on
it was a very unusual case.
573
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,360
Uh, this was something
very, very different.
574
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,079
My name is Richard Parkhouse.
I'm a senior crown prosecutor,
575
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,200
and I work for the Crown Court unit
for the South West CPS.
576
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,079
We tend to deal with
the more serious offences
577
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,600
that end up in the Crown Court.
578
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,599
I wasn't involved in the investigation
in relation to Mr Gustavson,
579
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,719
but Marius Gustavson
is an important person in our case.
580
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:20,279
So what we did rely on was
overview statements from the Met Police
581
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,360
just to give a background
about the investigation.
582
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,880
And there were videos
of extreme body procedures.
583
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,559
And one of the definitions
of an extreme image
584
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,320
is an act which could
seriously injure someone's genitals,
585
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,560
so this clearly met
the definition of extreme images.
586
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,879
And there appears to be
587
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,160
an international market
for this kind of fetish.
588
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,039
During the course
of the Met Police investigation,
589
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:56,480
thousands of messages
and a lot of computers were examined.
590
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,599
There was over 10,000 emails,
591
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,999
because he was notified every time
someone purchased one of his videos.
592
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,480
So it's a huge amount of material
to go through.
593
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,360
Marius Gustavson was eventually charged.
594
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,439
When police examined all of his devices,
595
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,560
they see that he's been messaging
with another person.
596
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:29,200
There are 5,177 messages between them.
597
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,400
They were talking about further videos
that Mr Gustavson was going to make
598
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,599
about cutting off further body parts
599
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,480
and a keen interest in viewing them
and purchasing them.
600
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,279
So this person was one of his customers,
601
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,439
someone who'd been accessing his videos,
602
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,439
was an email address,
603
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,080
and that email address was subscribed
to the website.
604
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,080
He was using "Admirodoc"
as his profile name.
605
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,920
Following further investigation,
606
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,560
the Met police discovered that
the email address that was being used
607
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,480
was registered
to someone living in Cornwall.
608
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,279
And also, the telephone number that
was communicating with Mr Gustavson
609
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,040
was registered to Neil Hopper.
610
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,000
Neil Hopper's
carrying on as normal.
611
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:31,599
Hero consultant who has come back
from his own amputations.
612
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,839
And he doesn't know
that he's now been linked
613
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,560
to the Eunuch Maker website…
614
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,600
through the discovery of, like,
hundreds and hundreds of messages.
615
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,840
So you've got the two parallel worlds
and… and suddenly they met.
616
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,840
And that led
to Neil Hopper's world collapsing.